Ilan Pappe: "This Is the Final Stage of Zionism"
The Israeli Historian Discusses Neo-Zionism, Ceasefire Talks, and the Impact of Trump’s Return on Israel
Copenhagen, Denmark – On a chilly Saturday morning in Copenhagen, Israeli historian Ilan Pappe sat in a cinema hall, warming up from the cold and chatting fluently in Arabic with one of the event’s organizers. With a paper cup of black coffee in hand, Pappe, a staunch critic of Israel’s policies, prepared to address an international audience of academics, rights activists, and Danish citizens shocked by Israel's actions in Gaza.
Pappe, who learned Arabic during his time in Palestine, spoke candidly about the current state of Zionism and its evolution into a more aggressive, far-right ideology. He told the gathered crowd that since the war in Gaza erupted, he has been dismayed by Europe's response to what he described as "the most televised genocide of modern times."
On Zionism’s Evolution: Neo-Zionism and Its Ambitions
During an exclusive interview with Al Jazeera, Pappe discussed the current phase of Zionism, calling it "neo-Zionist," an ideology far more extreme than its predecessors. He explained that Zionist leadership today is attempting to complete the goals set in 1948, including the total takeover of historical Palestine and the displacement of as many Palestinians as possible. Pappe further warned that this new form of Zionism aims to create an Israeli empire that would be both feared and respected by its neighbors, potentially expanding beyond Palestine.
Pappe cautiously described this moment in history as the "last phase" of Zionism, noting that historically, such ideological movements, whether colonial or imperial, end in an overreach that ultimately leads to their collapse.
The Impact of Trump’s Return and America’s Role
As Donald Trump heads back to the White House for a second term, Pappe expressed concern about the alliance between Trump, Elon Musk, and Israel. He warned that the rise of populist leaders like Trump, along with their support for Israeli policies, could negatively influence the political climate. However, Pappe also foresaw a decline in U.S. involvement in the Middle East, which he viewed as potentially positive, particularly if international intervention came from the Global South rather than the Global North.
He acknowledged that the situation was grim in the short term, but expressed hope for long-term decolonization in Palestine, even though he anticipated a long and violent process.
Ceasefire Talks and the Future of Palestine
As ceasefire negotiations continue, Pappe was asked about the future of peace in Palestine. While he remains skeptical that a ceasefire alone will bring an end to the violence, he hopes it will at least limit the scale of the genocide. Looking ahead, Pappe sees a decades-long process of decolonization, where Palestinians continue their struggle against settler-colonialism. He noted that this decolonization could either lead to more violence or offer an opportunity for a more just future for all involved.
The Global Response and the Rise of New Alliances
Pappe expressed concern about the global political alliances that sustain Zionism, pointing to the rise of populism, multinational corporations, and the new right in Europe as key factors enabling Israel's actions. Despite this, he is optimistic that a global movement focused on justice, including struggles against poverty, immigration, and climate change, could one day challenge these forces and weaken the Zionist project.
Addressing Anti-Semitism and the New Right’s Dangerous Alliance
Pappe also addressed the troubling rise of anti-Semitism within the far-right in Europe, noting that both Zionists and anti-Semites shared a common goal of removing Jews from Europe and resettling them in Palestine. He highlighted the growing alignment between neo-right movements and Israel, despite the anti-Semitic elements that still exist within these movements. Pappe pointed out that Israel’s strong association with Islamophobia in the new right poses a moral dilemma for Jewish communities worldwide.
Generational Divide and the Indoctrination of Israeli Youth
Reflecting on the generational divide within Jewish families outside Israel, Pappe observed that many younger Jews are beginning to question their support for Israel, especially as more information about the conflict becomes available. However, he emphasized that inside Israel, the indoctrination of youth by the education system has made it difficult for many to empathize with Palestinians. Pappe, who predicted this indoctrination in the late 1990s, called for a re-education of Israeli youth, noting that it is not enough to simply present them with images of Palestinian suffering—deep structural changes in their worldview are necessary.
Looking Ahead
In closing, Pappe expressed cautious optimism that the younger generation of Jews, both in Israel and abroad, will eventually challenge the Zionist project. While the future remains uncertain, Pappe believes that the tide of history may turn, potentially leading to a more just and equitable future for Palestinians and the region as a whole.